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This Whole "skill Vs Workrate" Thing...
Topic Started: Mar 24 2007, 03:00 PM (411 Views)
Migster
Bob Latchford
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So I like Rowan Vine and Fabrice Muamba because they work hard, but I don't like DJ Campbell and Julian Gray because, despite their workrate, they're not good enough. I like Bendtner and McSheff because of their skill, although I'm running out of patience with Bendtner and he's beginning to look like a luxury item at this stage of the season where all 11 need to be plugging away non-stop.

Thing is, where and when does someones workrate stop appeasing the fact that they're simply not good enough?
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doc nick
Malcom Page
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you have to have a balance of work rate and skill to be successfull.

forwards i think should not be there for work rate IMO they should be there to score goals your work rate shoule come for the midfield.

one defencive to attack minded wingers to suply service to forwards and a creative midfielder that could also suply service but be called on to track back if needed.

i would not play any striker that did'nt score goals.

but in fairness to ours most of the time they have ro come back into midfield to recieve the ball they should'nt be doing that they should be up fr4ont waiting for service from midfield.
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Migster
Bob Latchford
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There isn't going to be any service from central or right midfeld though. I think that this is why Bendtner still starts as he's the best at picking it up from midfield.
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doc nick
Malcom Page
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Migster
Mar 24 2007, 03:16 PM
There isn't going to be any service from central or right midfeld though. I think that this is why Bendtner still starts as he's the best at picking it up from midfield.

thats right so you cant blame any of our forwards from not scoring can you.

we have to get that creativity in the midle of the park and i think if we did we would score bag fulls.

i rate our team very highly which is why i'd like to see them under another manager.

it's only then i think we can say if players are good enough or not.
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Steve
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Malcom Page
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How can you say DJ Campbell isn't good enough... He scores goals! :unsure:
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Migster
Bob Latchford
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Brummiesteven
Mar 24 2007, 06:14 PM
How can you say DJ Campbell isn't good enough... He scores goals! :unsure:

Because he's a non-league journeyman who got lucky. There.
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Lucky
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Bob Latchford
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Migster
Mar 24 2007, 04:00 PM
So I like Rowan Vine and Fabrice Muamba because they work hard, but I don't like DJ Campbell and Julian Gray because, despite their workrate, they're not good enough. I like Bendtner and McSheff because of their skill, although I'm running out of patience with Bendtner and he's beginning to look like a luxury item at this stage of the season where all 11 need to be plugging away non-stop.

Thing is, where and when does someones workrate stop appeasing the fact that they're simply not good enough?

mcsheff works hard and has skill but i still think he is wasted on the wing but needs must i guess.
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willvbcfc
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Gil Merrick
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Migster
Mar 24 2007, 06:27 PM
Brummiesteven
Mar 24 2007, 06:14 PM
How can you say DJ Campbell isn't good enough... He scores goals!  :unsure:

Because he's a non-league journeyman who got lucky. There.

A non-league journeyman who got lucky.............who scores goals.

Sounds like a good player to me...
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christovskiblue
Bob Hatton
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Migster
Mar 24 2007, 06:27 PM
Brummiesteven
Mar 24 2007, 06:14 PM
How can you say DJ Campbell isn't good enough... He scores goals!  :unsure:

Because he's a non-league journeyman who got lucky. There.

funny isnt it how people see the game differently...imo id start DJC every game possible, he has better finishing than jerome and vine on evidence so far and he works at least five times as hard as bendtner who imop should be dropped...id be interested to see what DJC and Cole do up front tbh, both can finish and one will do the running for both of em....only problem you get with DJC is that he's too short for any long ball footie...nice to have selction headaches tho rather than being short on numbers :banner:
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franscar
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Mikael Forssell
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Ian Wright, Stuart Pearce, Kevin Phillips. They were all non-league players too. Doesn't mean they're no good, just means they were later developers. It's not a case of luck, it's a case of improving later in life and being good enough to get picked up by a club.

Dudley's admitted that he made mistakes during his younger days, and is grateful for his second chance. He always plays the game with 100% commitment and his record this season has been very good.

Sure he didn't adapt first time round to the Premiership particularly quickly, but he was playing in a sinking side, getting used to new teammates and a new division. I think his pace would be a great asset off the bench next season, and he'd certainly be a valuable squad player to have around, because I don't see a Big Time Charlie play me or I'll throw a strop attitude coming from him.

As for skill v workrate, yes it has to be balanced. Bendtner won't chase back to the edge of his own box for every ball, nor would I want him to. I want him to do what he's best at, which is creating something out of nothing, and having the skill and ability to cause defenders trouble. A side of eleven Bendtner's wouldn't get very far, same as a team of eleven Damien Johnson's. The best teams have a blend of both types of player, and the very, very best players have a blend of both skill and workrate.
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doc nick
Malcom Page
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franscar
Mar 24 2007, 08:55 PM
Ian Wright, Stuart Pearce, Kevin Phillips. They were all non-league players too. Doesn't mean they're no good, just means they were later developers. It's not a case of luck, it's a case of improving later in life and being good enough to get picked up by a club.

Dudley's admitted that he made mistakes during his younger days, and is grateful for his second chance. He always plays the game with 100% commitment and his record this season has been very good.

Sure he didn't adapt first time round to the Premiership particularly quickly, but he was playing in a sinking side, getting used to new teammates and a new division. I think his pace would be a great asset off the bench next season, and he'd certainly be a valuable squad player to have around, because I don't see a Big Time Charlie play me or I'll throw a strop attitude coming from him.

As for skill v workrate, yes it has to be balanced. Bendtner won't chase back to the edge of his own box for every ball, nor would I want him to. I want him to do what he's best at, which is creating something out of nothing, and having the skill and ability to cause defenders trouble. A side of eleven Bendtner's wouldn't get very far, same as a team of eleven Damien Johnson's. The best teams have a blend of both types of player, and the very, very best players have a blend of both skill and workrate.

spot on good post. **thumbup
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Blue64
Bob Hatton
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Migster
Mar 24 2007, 06:27 PM
Brummiesteven
Mar 24 2007, 06:14 PM
How can you say DJ Campbell isn't good enough... He scores goals!  :unsure:

Because he's a non-league journeyman who got lucky. There.

wtf** :silence: :copno: sometimes I wish you could use the language you really wanted to to some comments :Blues:
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BornBlueNosed
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Martin Grainger
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Migster
Mar 24 2007, 06:27 PM
Brummiesteven
Mar 24 2007, 06:14 PM
How can you say DJ Campbell isn't good enough... He scores goals!  :unsure:

Because he's a non-league journeyman who got lucky. There.

Yet he still has the best goal to time on pitch ratio this season. Stick with your big time charlies looking for a last pay check. Personally I would take DJC and his goal scoring ways every time.

What is wrong with some people :banghead:

BBN
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Steve
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Malcom Page
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franscar
Mar 24 2007, 08:55 PM
Ian Wright, Stuart Pearce, Kevin Phillips. They were all non-league players too. Doesn't mean they're no good, just means they were later developers. It's not a case of luck, it's a case of improving later in life and being good enough to get picked up by a club.

Dudley's admitted that he made mistakes during his younger days, and is grateful for his second chance. He always plays the game with 100% commitment and his record this season has been very good.

Sure he didn't adapt first time round to the Premiership particularly quickly, but he was playing in a sinking side, getting used to new teammates and a new division. I think his pace would be a great asset off the bench next season, and he'd certainly be a valuable squad player to have around, because I don't see a Big Time Charlie play me or I'll throw a strop attitude coming from him.

As for skill v workrate, yes it has to be balanced. Bendtner won't chase back to the edge of his own box for every ball, nor would I want him to. I want him to do what he's best at, which is creating something out of nothing, and having the skill and ability to cause defenders trouble. A side of eleven Bendtner's wouldn't get very far, same as a team of eleven Damien Johnson's. The best teams have a blend of both types of player, and the very, very best players have a blend of both skill and workrate.

In some ways this is the better player.

Greatful for what they have, never big headed and wont moan about wages. Wont cry when only making the bench and will try as hard as they can to get a starting position.
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Bluediver
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Alex Govan
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So what's better? Skill or workrate? There's only one way to find out. FIGHT!!!!
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brumjaep
Peter Enckelman
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To be a top side, every player needs a blend of both, i think we'll all agree. But obviously some players have more of a work ethic than others, and some more skill. I prefer, in a 4-4-2, having my defenders who are more hard working than skillful, my midfielders a mixture of 2 more skillful and 2 more hard working and depending on the quality of skill in the midfield, 2 strikers who are more skill than hard work. 1 of the central midfielders should be a hard working defensive player too.

This is where i think Blues are falling down going forward. With our first XI, i think both Laursen and DJ are more hard working than skillful. Either one of them on the right plays alongside Clem and Muamba, same sort of players. That leaves just McSheff who's more skillful. This leads to our strikers not getting the service and us having to consider dropping Bendtner, our MOST skilful player, to cover for the poor tactics of the midfield.

And if you managed to follow all that then fair play to you?!!

KRO
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spliffy
Geoff Horsfield
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Migster
Mar 24 2007, 06:27 PM
Brummiesteven
Mar 24 2007, 06:14 PM
How can you say DJ Campbell isn't good enough... He scores goals!  :unsure:

Because he's a non-league journeyman who got lucky. There.

sounds like ian wright :o
mark bright :o
that devonshire bloke :o
stewart pearce :o

etc etc
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proccy_blues
Joe Bradford
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skill vs workrate imo is like morcambe and wise - one without the other is no good... **thumbup
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heath123
Geoff Horsfield
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90% of our team has a better workrate than their skill level, so when you get bendtner a talented player in a team where he is the odd one out people will pick up on his workrate, beacuse you see the likes of vine jerome dj etc running there legs of and bendtner stands there if the ball isn't too his feet,and sulks when macca was on his hattrick and he wanted to take the pen.
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proccy_blues
Joe Bradford
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heath123
Mar 26 2007, 11:22 AM
90% of our team has a better workrate than their skill level, so when you get bendtner a talented player in a team where he is the odd one out people will pick up on his workrate, beacuse you see the likes of vine jerome dj etc running there legs of and bendtner stands there if the ball isn't too his feet,and sulks when macca was on his hattrick and he wanted to take the pen.

any interpreters in the house...... :rolleyes:
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Bookemdanno
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Alex Govan
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No speaka ze english!
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tidgy_bcfc
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come on you blue boys
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will_bcfc
Mar 24 2007, 06:44 PM
Migster
Mar 24 2007, 06:27 PM
Brummiesteven
Mar 24 2007, 06:14 PM
How can you say DJ Campbell isn't good enough... He scores goals!  :unsure:

Because he's a non-league journeyman who got lucky. There.

A non-league journeyman who got lucky.............who scores goals.

Sounds like a good player to me...

sounds like a player who just got better and some one noticed him ie steve bruce
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SimonBCFC
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Mike Skinner
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Lazy players can survive in the team by having talent (bendtner) and less talented players survive in the team with work rate (DJ) its only when you get them both hand in hand you get a top class player (McSheffery)
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charliedontsurf
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Geoff Horsfield
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The problem we have at St Andy's though, is that we have such a lienage of MASSIve workshorses (in recent times alone, Daish, Claridge, O'Connor, G-Man, Horse, Savage) that you alomst lose perspective of what really IS a laze player.

I am not saying bendy should be exempt from criticism, but IMO there are plenty of players in this division (Koumas etc.) who are lazier than Nik, but do not get the grief because of the culture at the clubs. Players like those mentioned in the first paragraph are as rare as those with genuione quality. maybe Bentdner could work a little hradre, but I do think calling him lazy just because he does not match the specatcular heights of some other players' workrates is unfair - just like expecting DJ Campbell to be as classy as TF is unfair.
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Bournville Blue
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Geoff Horsfield
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charliedontsurf
Mar 27 2007, 12:30 PM
The problem we have at St Andy's though, is that we have such a lienage of MASSIve workshorses (in recent times alone, Daish, Claridge, O'Connor, G-Man, Horse, Savage) that you alomst lose perspective of what really IS a laze player.

I am not saying bendy should be exempt from criticism, but IMO there are plenty of players in this division (Koumas etc.) who are lazier than Nik, but do not get the grief because of the culture at the clubs. Players like those mentioned in the first paragraph are as rare as those with genuione quality. maybe Bentdner could work a little hradre, but I do think calling him lazy just because he does not match the specatcular heights of some other players' workrates is unfair - just like expecting DJ Campbell to be as classy as TF is unfair.

wtf** Having class, skill and natural ability is no excuse to be lazy... simple as that!
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